80GB: ECS P5ST-A Ver 1.0a 11/05/97-SiS-5598-(P5ST-A)C-00

BIOS update, EIDE card, or overlay software? (FAQ Hard disk recognition)
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Dear ajzchips and chemical,

I have been reading your conversation as I have a similar problem:

PC: TIME Colossus
OS: Windows 95b (OSR2.1)
M/B:ECS P5ST-A Ver 1.0a
Chipset: Sis 5597/5598 (5597 ver 2)
BIOS ID String: 11/05/97-SiS-5598-(P5ST-A)C-00
BIOS OEM ID String:P5ST-A Ver 1.0a 11/05/1997 (146-C-25).

I installed a new 80GB HDD as slave. But my BIOS, though plug&play, did not even find this new hardware let alone recognise it properly and configure it.

I thought the solution to my problem will be:
download AWD64GB patch and Uniflash utility from wim's Bios then upgrade my PC BIOS. Do you think I should try that to solve the HDD limitation? Or do you think since the BIOS did not even notice the new HDD, this will not solve my problem which may be something else?

Any help and comments greatly welcomed.

And which flash utility (Uniflash or AWARD) would you recommend, please
Last edited by jamsah on Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ajzchips
El cheapo dude
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:41 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

You'll find a patched version for HDD support upto 128GB here:
http://wims.rainbow-software.org/index.php?count=-1
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Is there anyway I can find out, test etc if my slave HDD working?
It is not detected by BIOS nor IDE Autodetection in CMOS setup.

Thanks
ajzchips
El cheapo dude
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:41 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

Jumper it correctly and/or enter the HDD parameters manually in BIOS.
Ritchie
BIOS Guru
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:17 am

When having difficulty I connect one drive at a time to the data cable, and make sure it detects correctly by itself. Once I have verified that the system verifies both drives individually I then connect the two drives together and if they do then not detect at all or not as I want them at this time I set jumpers and check cabling.

In that method, if the drives do not detect correctly in the primary stages (by themselves) I check jumpers, and if there is still a problem I know I may be facing an issue where the BIOS does not have the proper support for the size drives.
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Ritchie wrote:When having difficulty I connect one drive at a time to the data cable, and make sure it detects correctly by itself. Once I have verified that the system verifies both drives individually I then connect the two drives together and if they do then not detect at all or not as I want them at this time I set jumpers and check cabling.

In that method, if the drives do not detect correctly in the primary stages (by themselves) I check jumpers, and if there is still a problem I know I may be facing an issue where the BIOS does not have the proper support for the size drives.
Thanks for your troubleshooting advice.
But it's ALL been sorted out.
It was:
1) Old BIOS preblem: It NEVER detected the slave HDD not in during startup nor in 'IDE Autodetect' in CMSO Setup.
2) New HDD: For some overzelous reasons, it did not get on (still deos not) with the old master HDD at all!
It complains ALL sorts of things; about Master HDD, IDE cable connections,
Master/salve settings etc etc etc.
3)HDD/BIOS Limitations: when the 'capacity limit' jumper installed on slave HDD, old BIOS recognises it. If not, exactly as in 1)

4) New HDD: It still (even with new BIOS) complains eg when made it master and old master slave or disconnected old master (now slave) from the middle IDE connector. It reports "primary slave disk fails" and never goes to work UNLESS I HIT F1 'to coninue.' It's, basically, too fussy about little things that are not its business! But old master CORRECTLY recognises its slave when present. If not, it does NOT bother at all and works perfectly as a single master HDD with no slave. But this new HDD? It's completely different beast (or shall I say a toy) altogether!

Also, it always requires HDDs to be re-detected via 'HDD Autodetect' in CMOS Setup especially when HDDs swapped around etc.
Else, It can show itself as the master HDD and complains that "primary slave disk (itslef) fails." WEIRD.
ajzchips
El cheapo dude
Posts: 3048
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:41 pm
Location: Madrid, Spain

You might want to try the alternative patch by BP.
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

ajzchips wrote:You might want to try the alternative patch by BP.
Dear ajzchips,
NO.
Everything is working fine apart from those little overzelous error messages and the fact that, sometimes, I have to re-detect HDDs eg slave in 'IDE Autodetection' in CMOS setup. This only happens when new HDD is the master and there have been some changes eg master/slave HDDs swapped, slave disconnected etc.

Therefore, I do not need to try anymore BIOS patches. This patched version, AWD64 Patch, is ALL I needed.

Thanks for your help, once again.
Ritchie
BIOS Guru
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:17 am

Hi there Jamsah

I am glad you are happy with the update you applied. I think AJZCHIPS is only offering a suggestion on the basis that it may correct some of the issues you are describing. But if you prefer to stick with what you have got I don't think you are offending anyone.

The other reason I am making this post is because I noted that you said the BIOS sometimes loses the IDE settings. This issue by itself may simply be the result of an old and dying CMOS backup battery - it may be worth checking that out. Hope that may help.
Ritchie
BIOS Guru
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:17 am

Hi Jamsah - I just taken another look at your posts and noted that if the drive settings are the only issue you are having, then maybe a backup battery might be all that is required and you may gain nothing from another BIOS image. If this is the case I agree with you that you will not benefit from another BIOS image/update.

If, though, you are getting other BIOS errors that do not appear to be related to the BIOS losing drive, date/time and/or other settings, then perhaps this could be something that another BIOS image may still correct.

In either case though, it may be worth replacing the backup battery with a new one and seeing what happens before you do anything else.
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Ritchie wrote:Hi there Jamsah

I am glad you are happy with the update you applied. I think AJZCHIPS is only offering a suggestion on the basis that it may correct some of the issues you are describing. But if you prefer to stick with what you have got I don't think you are offending anyone.

The other reason I am making this post is because I noted that you said the BIOS sometimes loses the IDE settings. This issue by itself may simply be the result of an old and dying CMOS backup battery - it may be worth checking that out. Hope that may help.
Thanks for your advice. And thanks AJZCHIPS for his VAUABLE advice - this last post as wel as many PREVIOUS ones.

Yes, the BIOS sometimes loses the HDD settings but:
1) It's USUALLY after changing HDDs settings eg master/slave swap or disconnecting slave AND especially when the new HDD changes from slave to master - where old master becomes slave or disconnected.
And that is why I am relating these errors to the new HDD!

2) As I mentioned before, this is not true for the old master where slave is detected correctly by BIOS and ignored if not present.
3) You see, it IS the same BIOS doing things differently for the different HDDs! In short, it recognises (either automatically or via IDE Autodetec in CMOS Setup) correctly the old master when made slave or disconnected . But it throws all sorts of error messages when new HDD is made master with/without slave.

Now, I think the solution will be one of the following:
1) I make the new HDD master and disconnect old master (now slave) from middle IDE cable connector by using TWO connector IDE cable. So, there is no 'floating' middle IDE connector to complain.
2) I detect this master via CMOS setup and save settings
3) I leave this arrangement for a while and use my PC as usual

Now, if anything changes eg settings lost etc its BIOS or as you, correctly pointed out the CMOS battery. After all, my PC is early 1998. So, I am expecting many components to wear & tear or even fail because of their age.
If no errors etc encountered and this new HDD works exactly as the old master, you will agree with me that: All those problems related to, and only, to this new HDD. Not even the three connector IDE cable is to blame. Because the old HDD does not actually see any difference between the two and three connector IDE cables - regardless of whether slave HDD is present (when it's detected) or not (when it's ignored) in the middle connector!

4) I am going to stop changing HDDs setting around since I achieved my goal of installing new large HDD as the master - with or without slave. Hence, some of the problems eg re-detecting HDDs etc will definately go away.

As, ajzchips suggestedd, I might also need to try the new patched BIOS as I am installing new OS (WIN2K or XP Home?) on this new HDD.
I am after dual-booting, you see.

But thank you very much for your troubleshooting advice especially about the CMOS battery. Same goes to AJZCHIPS about the BIOS and HDDs.
Ritchie
BIOS Guru
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:17 am

Hi there Jamsah

I don't follow your diagnosis of the drive configuration completely but it sounds almost like it could be an IDE config issue, with respect to pri/sec, cs/mast/slave and connector positions on the cables. But as I don't follow you completely it is difficult to tell - if you suspect anything in this area you could only troubleshoot to your own ability unless others can offer further advise.

I agree with you that the battery is still a possibility. But given what you have just explained it now seems less likely to me now, although still worth trying.

Also another BIOS image is still also worth considering as you have agreed. Our other consideration is a possible buggy BIOS contributing to or causing your problems, however a BIOS change could only be tried and would not guarantee resolvement of issues. It would also be safer to patch an older BIOS without these bugs, rather than your current BIOS, in my opinion, else these bugs could transfer into the new version.
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Ritchie wrote:Hi there Jamsah

I don't follow your diagnosis of the drive configuration completely but it sounds almost like it could be an IDE config issue, with respect to pri/sec, cs/mast/slave and connector positions on the cables. But as I don't follow you completely it is difficult to tell - if you suspect anything in this area you could only troubleshoot to your own ability unless others can offer further advise.

I agree with you that the battery is still a possibility. But given what you have just explained it now seems less likely to me now, although still worth trying.

Also another BIOS image is still also worth considering as you have agreed. Our other consideration is a possible buggy BIOS contributing to or causing your problems, however a BIOS change could only be tried and would not guarantee resolvement of issues. It would also be safer to patch an older BIOS without these bugs, rather than your current BIOS, in my opinion, else these bugs could transfer into the new version.
Dear Ritchie,

1) Checking the CMOS battery is a DEFINATE possibility.
But, the problems I mentioned only relate to the new large HDD.
2) Buggy BIOS?
I am using the AWD64 patch and together with the old small HDD no problems encountered. Also, the old BIOS and old small HDD never caused me any problems or reported errors since early 1998.
3) I upgraded my old BIOS only to recognise new, large HDD.

As I said, I need to connect two connector IDE cable to new HDD, re-detect it once (via IDE Autodetect in CMOS Setup) then leave that arrangemet for some time - while using my machine as usual.

I think, some errors eg "primary slave hard disk fails" etc will disappear for good and my PC should boot as normal.
If not, I will envestigate elsewhere eg Battery, BIOS etc.

Also, I can simply re-connect the slave HDD into middle IDE cable connector (redecting it in CMOS Setup if neccessary) to make BIOS/new HDD 'happy'.

You see, the whole thing is not a big issue But:
Why new master HDD creates errors eg "primary slave hard disk fails", where PC stops booting, when I temporarily disconnect its slave (to avoid deleting/formatting wrong HDD etc).
I mean, the old master HDD detects correctly when slave is present and ignores when slave is not present - and with the same IDE cable, BIOS etc. That is why I rest this error message with new HDD.
Ritchie
BIOS Guru
Posts: 761
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 5:17 am

I hope it resolves itself for you.

You say the old BIOS was OK with a smaller drive. Now you have made two changes. A new BIOS, and a larger drive. The new BIOS could have introduced the problem by itself; there may be significant bugs there that the old BIOS did not suffer from. Then even if the BIOS is OK, maybe something to do with the change of hard drive. Or the new BIOS and the larger drive together.

I know of a mainboard which worked OK with smaller drives, but which became unstable with larger drives, or at least with one particular drive. Either that particular drive had a problem or the BIOS had a problem with drives of that size. You may have a similar issue. Does your new BIOS run stable if you install the smaller drive?
jamsah
BIOS Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Ritchie wrote:I hope it resolves itself for you.

You say the old BIOS was OK with a smaller drive. Now you have made two changes. A new BIOS, and a larger drive. The new BIOS could have introduced the problem by itself; there may be significant bugs there that the old BIOS did not suffer from. Then even if the BIOS is OK, maybe something to do with the change of hard drive. Or the new BIOS and the larger drive together.

I know of a mainboard which worked OK with smaller drives, but which became unstable with larger drives, or at least with one particular drive. Either that particular drive had a problem or the BIOS had a problem with drives of that size. You may have a similar issue. Does your new BIOS run stable if you install the smaller drive?
Dear Ritchie,

Thanks VERY much for your constant troubleshooting advice.

As I said, many times before it WAS the new HDD being simply fussy about little things that ar NOT its business, eg disconnecting its slave.

As promised, I simply reconnected both drives (the new one being the master adn the old the slave), redetected them correctly via IDE Autodetect in CMOS Setup and Saved settings.

PC boots up as NORMAL and works PERFECT - exactly what's expected.
No more error messages eg Primary slave hard disk fails etc, No keys to hit 'To Continue' and no need to enter into CMOS Setup EVER again.

You see, all along I knew exactly what I was talking about!
New HDD, unlike old one, did not like this 'floating' middle IDE cable connector. Nothing else was wrong or needed updating, investigating etc.
I simply wanted Why? And why for the new HDD only??

Case closed for good. And I am HAPPY with the results.

Thanks everyone.
Post Reply