Hi,
Could anyone help me please. I tried to flash Award BIOS on MS6119, chipset i440BX, flash Winbond W29C020. During flashing there were few blocks in the end which were not "rewritten". I tried to flash back to original BIOS immediately, the same result. After few attempts I decided to reset and MB is dead.
Boot-Block didn't work, there is no any related jumper on the board to activate it. Led on FDD doesn't light up at all.
So I went "hot swapping" way. The only another PC I can risk with is the old Pentium with chipset i430VX and flash Winbond W29EE011. So I booted up, did hot swapping and tried to reflash W29C020 with a proper BIOS. Naturally all flashers recognize a chipset as 430VX. After that they say "Flash type is not known" on W29c020. As I uderstood flashers "recognize" flash for only installled chipset ( 430VX) here. I don't have
any access to mobo with 440BX chipset.
I read on the internet that you can do "hot swapping" even on an old 486. How to overcome "flash not recognized" problem ? Are there any flashers which don't check flash type or you can specify it explicitely? I read here that MRBIOS flasher can be the way to go. Which version of MRBIOS should I use ? For 430VX or 440BX chipset ? What their numbers ? Any advise would be highly appreciated.
Hot swapping - flash not known
you can tried it with Uniflash on another meanboard with the same voltage for the Award bioschip as you dead motherboard.
After the flashes ,turn the power off of you good meanbord and place the good bios back .
After the flashes ,turn the power off of you good meanbord and place the good bios back .
I tried that. When I put W29C020 into a good MB and run Uniflash,
it responds:
Flash Rom Chip: UNKNOWN,
Organization: N/A (is write protection disabled ?).
The only available selection is exit.
The author of Unicflash mentioned something about write protection
for this flash chip. He siad that he doesn't know how to disable(enable?) it.
it responds:
Flash Rom Chip: UNKNOWN,
Organization: N/A (is write protection disabled ?).
The only available selection is exit.
The author of Unicflash mentioned something about write protection
for this flash chip. He siad that he doesn't know how to disable(enable?) it.
When performing a flash in this operation the use of the /F parameter is required. Using this switch will force the flash to go through(Award Bios Only). Also, this parameter must be used by itself. No other parameters can be used in conjunction with it.
When you flash a BIOS I find there are usually some bits that are not updated and I think it is intended for some bits to not be updated.
Assuming that the non-updated bits during your flash were intended as such, which I suspect, the best thing for you to do would have probably been to reboot the PC as per normal once the flash process was complete. I think thats where your mistake was; I cannot say what went wrong after that but it sounds as if the programming got corrupted or confused in the subsequent flashes (maybe a bit like if you uninstall and reinstall several different versions of the same Windows program several times which would normally require reboots, but you do this without rebooting. Once you have finished, and especially after you reboot, you can end up with a few problems as a result).
Assuming that the non-updated bits during your flash were intended as such, which I suspect, the best thing for you to do would have probably been to reboot the PC as per normal once the flash process was complete. I think thats where your mistake was; I cannot say what went wrong after that but it sounds as if the programming got corrupted or confused in the subsequent flashes (maybe a bit like if you uninstall and reinstall several different versions of the same Windows program several times which would normally require reboots, but you do this without rebooting. Once you have finished, and especially after you reboot, you can end up with a few problems as a result).
I just had a thought. If you are talking about putting the bad chip into another machine while running, (which is something I am not sure I would want to try) then the best time to do this would probably be when Uniflash is running, just one keystroke before the chip is written to (but be careful not to accidentally flash the good chip - research the keystrokes beforehand).
The reason I suggest the above is because this is the point at which Uniflash will have performed most of it's checks on the chip to be flashed, and by inserting the chip before the last keystroke, you minimise the number of checks before the flash begins. With luck, Uniflash will attempt to write to the chip without any further checks after that keystroke.
Out of interest, can Uniflash actually do that? Be told to write to a chip regardless of contents, doing no checking beforehand. Would be handy for when chips are corrupt to the extent where the content of the chip provides information to Uniflash or another flash program that results in Uniflash making a decision that the chip cannot be read to. So Uniflash would flash, or attempt to flash, regardless.
The reason I suggest the above is because this is the point at which Uniflash will have performed most of it's checks on the chip to be flashed, and by inserting the chip before the last keystroke, you minimise the number of checks before the flash begins. With luck, Uniflash will attempt to write to the chip without any further checks after that keystroke.
Out of interest, can Uniflash actually do that? Be told to write to a chip regardless of contents, doing no checking beforehand. Would be handy for when chips are corrupt to the extent where the content of the chip provides information to Uniflash or another flash program that results in Uniflash making a decision that the chip cannot be read to. So Uniflash would flash, or attempt to flash, regardless.
Thanks, guys, for your replies.
I managed to start flashing W29c020. However, during flashing
it showed few errors (red blocks). Verification failed.
So it seems that I killed the chip somehow. The simplest way
probably now is to replace MB.
I managed to start flashing W29c020. However, during flashing
it showed few errors (red blocks). Verification failed.
So it seems that I killed the chip somehow. The simplest way
probably now is to replace MB.
You will have to make sure that the board you are using to flash it uses the same chip. (if you have a winbond 29c020 you should try to find another board with the same chip, or at least another 29c020)
You may have sucess with a board that has a different chip installed, but the only way to be sure that the voltage and method of addressing the chip is right is to either get as close a match as you can or to flash it in an eprom burner.
Eprom burner software allows the device to program lots of different types of eprom/eeprom/flash, but you have to have it on the right setting for the chip you have. I've ocassionally set my burner to something close but not quite right (like Atmel 29c040 instead of Atmel 29c020) and it would not program properly. Motherboards work the same way, they are designed for only a small subset of the literally hundreds of different chip types out there. If you motherboard or flash software doesn't support it you won't be able to flash it. (ask the Xbox-Linux crew)
If Uniflash doesn't program it without errors even with the /F you probably need a new chip.
Hot swapping chips isn't really the safest thing to do, so be careful. Don't use a chip puller or metal screwdriver with the power on, find something non conducting to pull the chip when the machine is powered up or you could short something out and cause damage to the mainboard or the chip itself.
You may have sucess with a board that has a different chip installed, but the only way to be sure that the voltage and method of addressing the chip is right is to either get as close a match as you can or to flash it in an eprom burner.
Eprom burner software allows the device to program lots of different types of eprom/eeprom/flash, but you have to have it on the right setting for the chip you have. I've ocassionally set my burner to something close but not quite right (like Atmel 29c040 instead of Atmel 29c020) and it would not program properly. Motherboards work the same way, they are designed for only a small subset of the literally hundreds of different chip types out there. If you motherboard or flash software doesn't support it you won't be able to flash it. (ask the Xbox-Linux crew)
If Uniflash doesn't program it without errors even with the /F you probably need a new chip.
Hot swapping chips isn't really the safest thing to do, so be careful. Don't use a chip puller or metal screwdriver with the power on, find something non conducting to pull the chip when the machine is powered up or you could short something out and cause damage to the mainboard or the chip itself.
-
Denniss
- BIOS Guru
- Posts: 3153
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A lot of 29C020 or 29EE020 chips are compatible to most Bios found working in Winbond chips .
Chips from Atmel and SST should work without problems in your board .
it's possible your chip was somehow damaged before just allowing the originally installed Bios to work but reflashing only partially possible due to internal damage
Chips from Atmel and SST should work without problems in your board .
it's possible your chip was somehow damaged before just allowing the originally installed Bios to work but reflashing only partially possible due to internal damage
Hi!
Sorry, pals! I had to delete my previous reply from 07 Jun and re-write it completely, due to some confusing basic info I suddenly noted on this case. So, now it looks as follows:
Hi!
The basic problem on this case is, that you cannot hot-swap flash a 256kB/2Mbit W29C020 chip on a mobo with 128kB/1Mbit W29EE011 chip, the address space doesn't cover the extra 128kB!
Still there may also be remaining a problem related to the W29C020 chip and it's boot-block write-protect, and thus the last blocks may not be flashable without disabling that some way. One solution could be the one described on the note on the bottom of the page -> http://www.rainbow-software.org/hardware/hotflash.html. But, is the boot-block re-write needed at all? Depends on the case, maybe now after all this mess it's needed anyway ...
But sorry, further, during these flash trials the W29C020 chip may have got somehow corrupted and thus got unrecognizable by Uniflash, otherwise Uniflash would have been rightaway recognizing it as a W29C020(C)/022/5V chip with the code "DA45", also even sitting on a connector of a 128kB chip/mobo.
If more interested on the chips you can search/read the technical pdf's for the chips at -> http://www.winbond.com/e-winbondhtm/partner/search.asp.
Anyway, I have been doing many hot-swap flashes with no problems across different brand chips on different brand mobos', with different chipsets and IO-modules etc. (and, sometimes even without noting the 12V or 5V voltages too literally ...) But, some times, some combination didn't work too well, and some rare times, maybe one chip out of some 20 got corrupted ... And note, the hot-swap flashing works ONLY between the same kB/Mbit size chips'!
If still applicable, you could try the hot-swap flash as "forced" flashing to the W29C020 chip, as a Uniflash recognized chip W29C020(C)/022/5V by code "DA45" with a command line A:\uniflash -e xxxxxxxx.bin -force DA45, but on a 256kB 5V same connector chip mobo only ...
Or, you could buy a new any brand Uniflash recognized 256kB/2Mbit 5V EEPROM chip (note, the same connector type, is it DIP or PLCC?) usually with code 29, and try to do the hot-swap flash to it with Uniflash on a 256kB 5V same connector chip mobo. These chips may not be too expensive, maybe some $4-5/each, so, to ensure the success, with the same burden maybe buy 2 different brands. You can get the list of the recognized chips with a command line A:\uniflash -chiplist. By the way, do you already have the latest Uniflash v1.36?
Happy trials!
Regards,
Pete V.
Sorry, pals! I had to delete my previous reply from 07 Jun and re-write it completely, due to some confusing basic info I suddenly noted on this case. So, now it looks as follows:
Hi!
The basic problem on this case is, that you cannot hot-swap flash a 256kB/2Mbit W29C020 chip on a mobo with 128kB/1Mbit W29EE011 chip, the address space doesn't cover the extra 128kB!
Still there may also be remaining a problem related to the W29C020 chip and it's boot-block write-protect, and thus the last blocks may not be flashable without disabling that some way. One solution could be the one described on the note on the bottom of the page -> http://www.rainbow-software.org/hardware/hotflash.html. But, is the boot-block re-write needed at all? Depends on the case, maybe now after all this mess it's needed anyway ...
But sorry, further, during these flash trials the W29C020 chip may have got somehow corrupted and thus got unrecognizable by Uniflash, otherwise Uniflash would have been rightaway recognizing it as a W29C020(C)/022/5V chip with the code "DA45", also even sitting on a connector of a 128kB chip/mobo.
If more interested on the chips you can search/read the technical pdf's for the chips at -> http://www.winbond.com/e-winbondhtm/partner/search.asp.
Anyway, I have been doing many hot-swap flashes with no problems across different brand chips on different brand mobos', with different chipsets and IO-modules etc. (and, sometimes even without noting the 12V or 5V voltages too literally ...) But, some times, some combination didn't work too well, and some rare times, maybe one chip out of some 20 got corrupted ... And note, the hot-swap flashing works ONLY between the same kB/Mbit size chips'!
If still applicable, you could try the hot-swap flash as "forced" flashing to the W29C020 chip, as a Uniflash recognized chip W29C020(C)/022/5V by code "DA45" with a command line A:\uniflash -e xxxxxxxx.bin -force DA45, but on a 256kB 5V same connector chip mobo only ...
Or, you could buy a new any brand Uniflash recognized 256kB/2Mbit 5V EEPROM chip (note, the same connector type, is it DIP or PLCC?) usually with code 29, and try to do the hot-swap flash to it with Uniflash on a 256kB 5V same connector chip mobo. These chips may not be too expensive, maybe some $4-5/each, so, to ensure the success, with the same burden maybe buy 2 different brands. You can get the list of the recognized chips with a command line A:\uniflash -chiplist. By the way, do you already have the latest Uniflash v1.36?
Happy trials!
Regards,
Pete V.
