Bios & Memory Expansion Issue - Help please

Don't ask how to hack password. (BIOS Passwords)
marky
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Hi all,

I have this weird problem with my Hi Grade Atlas/Notino 3400 laptop.
It a fairly old machine bought on 12/2001 and runs an American Mega trends mother board. (Please see below details)

AMIBIOS Motherboard Manufacturer Identification
Version 1.4 (01/12/2004) Copyright 2003 American Megatrends, Inc.

This file has recorded information useful in identifying the manufacturer
of this motherboard. The information is listed below:

An AMIBIOS ID String Was Detected:
62-0213-009999-00101111-071595-SIS630
- ---- ------ ------
| | | |
| | | Chipset/BIOS Info
| | BIOS Build Date
| Manufacturer ID
BIOS ROM Information
AMIBIOS ROM Size: 256 KB
BIOS Build Date: Jul 15 1995
BIOS VER 2.09HIG
Motherboard Manufacturer Code: 9999 Not listed in MAN.DAT file

AMIBIOS Build Tag: 1AAOG008
AMIBIOS Project ID: 1AAOG - Project Name: 630S-061200
Microsoft Windows XP Version: 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2

For more information on upgrading your BIOS go to http://www.ami.com/support/bios.cfm?refer=mbid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SMBIOS info:
Manufacturer : American Megatrends Inc.
Product Name : 340S8
Version : 1.0
Serial Number: 00000000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROBLEM

The computer originally had 256mb of Kingston value ram when new and I have recently upgraded it with another 256mb of the same make in the second expansion slot.
Once fitted I got intermittent blue screens with messages saying “check any new hardware and make sure memory and shadow bios in not enabled.
At first I through it was a faulty memory card but tried the new Kingston ram on its own and all was fine. I then tested both strips singularly with memtest and no faults were detected. When both strips were again fitted memtest found occasional faults. I also noted that memtest was running about 20 times slower with 512mb fitted (very strange)

I am now almost 100% certain it’s a motherboard problem even though it’s supposed to support 1 GB of ram.
I’ve looked for a bios upgrade and only AMI seem to have it but they want to charge $30. (Who’s ever heard of charging for a bios update what a rip) AMI don’t ever tell you what the upgrade revision is or what its going to fix and I can’t go any further until I surrender by card details.

Question - can anyone kindly point me in the direction of an AMI or any company that uses this motherboard & bios on their laptops. I’m not worried if I get another companies logo on the bios boot screen providing it fixes the memory issue. I’ve never had to pay for any bios upgrade before as it’s a service companies normally provide free to their customers.
Some said Twinhead use this bios but I’m not sure how to check as I’m not familiar with their computers.

Thanks in advance.
cp
BIOS Guru
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:07 pm
Location: Germany

first of all: your testing procedure is excellent! this makes it a whole lot easier to narrow down the problem.
i'll have to check in some datasheets later but my first guess is: the ram sticks have different timings and the chipset doesn't support different timings for each memory slot. if so the question is: do they use spd contents to get the timings right or do you have to set them manually in the bios? if they look into the spd contents you could try to swap the modules and test with memtest again.
can you please post what modules you bought and what's written on them?
marky
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Thank you very much for your fast reply.

The motherboard is supposed to support synch dram 133 MHz at 3.3v either 60 or 70ns.

Unfortunately this bios is very basic and there is no ability to change the memory settings even in the advanced section. I reckon they therefore use SPD contents if the timings were different .

Both modules are Kingston value ram KVR133X64SCL3/256

Module 1 which came with the laptop is labeled as follows

9905099-002.A00
770645

Memory Make Toshiba

Module 2 which I purchased

9905217-004.A00LF
2607920-0890753 3.3v

ASMP08C0674

Memory Make unknown

Both modules run perfectly if used on there own in either memory slot. Very strange!
I'm also not sure why memtest slows up so much when both modules are used.

Found a similar issue here http://www.wimsbios.com/phpBB2/topic8578.html

Thanks again in advance.
cp
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Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:07 pm
Location: Germany

what do you mean by slowing up? memtest has to test twice the amount of ram if you use both modules. or did you refer to the MB/s value in the upper left corner?
did you try to swap the modules in their slots?? maybe the bios just tests one slot and uses the settings of that module's spd contents. i checked the SIS630 datasheet: the chipset can only set global timings. maybe you should grab CPU-Z and check the memory timings and the spd contens.
KachiWachi
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Do both modules have the same amount of chips on them?

Can you read the chip information and post that?

Thanks.
marky
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CP: With one sim inserted memtest completed a 100% test in around 5-10 mins. With both fitted it took about 1 hour to scan the 100%. I would have thought it should only take twice as long not 6X or more.
I have swapped modules and the same problem returns. I will give CPU-Z a try with both modules fitted if I can keep the Blue Screen away long enough.

Thanks for looking on your data sheets much appreciated.

KachiWachi - Yes both modules are identical in make (Kingston) and size although the chips themselves are not the same manufacturer. Perhaps there is a slight performance difference that the Motherboard doesn’t like.

The chip info is posted in my above listings.

Thank you also for your help
cp
BIOS Guru
Posts: 1914
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 9:07 pm
Location: Germany

Kachiwachi: while the SIS chipset is able to handle different memory organisations for each slot, it can only set global memory timings. the organisation of the memory should not be an issue.

marky: can you please post what's written on the chips on the memory modules itself? the info on the stickers is pretty useless and (maybe) represents kingston internal logistics stuff, except that 'KVR133X64SCL3/256'. and while memtest boots up fine: can you please post the memory speeds that are displayed in the upper left corner? (for both single modules and for the combined configuration,too) maybe something odd already shows up there.
marky
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Chip info

CP: Original Memory that came with the laptop is Toshiba Y61354
0134KAD Japan TC59SM816CFT-75

Recent Module 0646P\R V54C3256164VDI7PC
P186515DPDRA

I'm not having much luck on the memory speeds. Memtest is the free version and displays nothing more than errors and test percentage.

CPU-Z displays nothing in both memory and SPD screens. Anything other than memory size is grayed out. Obviously this program is not compatible.

Thanks again for your continued help.
KachiWachi
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Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Toshiba TC59SM816CFT-75 = SDRAM, 3.3V, 16Mx16, 8K refresh, 4 bank, Low Power, 143 MHz, CL2/3

ProMOS RAM V54C3256164VDL7PC = SDRAM, 3.3V, 16Mx16, 8K refresh, 4 bank, Low Power, 143 MHz, CL2/3

Does this notebook have SPD capability?
marky
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Unfortunately there is nothing in the bios that relates to memory and SPD.
A very basic bios even in the advanced section. The only memory setting is changing the shared graphics mb range.
This was one of the reasons I was looking for a better or updated bios for this notebook. It might then give me the options to tinker and possibly fixing this annoying problem. Maybe there is a possible software option if I can't find a bios revision.

Thanks for your help KachiWachi.
cp
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Location: Germany

KachiWachi: thanks for the datasheets. they are very helpful.

marky: please take a look at this picture:
http://www.memtest.org/pics/i875-big.gif
the memory speed is displayed in the upper left corner just behind the memory size (MEMORY : sizeM speedMB/s).
according to the datasheets the ProMOS ram is faster than the Toshiba RAM. as i said before the SIS630 is only able to set global ram timings. let's just take tRC (Ref/Active to Ref/Active Command Period). let's assume the chipset reads the values from the ProMOS module and sets the global memory timings accordingly. tRC = 60ns for the ProMOS. so the chipset sets tRC to 60ns/7,5ns=8T (8 clocks). now the Toshiba RAM comes into play. when the chipset accesses data on the Toshiba RAM it uses the 8T setting. the Toshiba RAM defines tRC=65ns, so the correct tRC setting would be 65ns/7,5ns=8,666T~9T. accesses to the Toshiba RAM will mostly end up in corrupt data. this is just one example and there are so many more..just take a look at the datasheets.

so i still assume that the bios gets the timing data from the module in the first slot. try swapping the modules in the slots and run the tests again. if nothing changes get another module.
marky
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CP: Thanks for the detailed and very accurate report on my problem. Having now had a chance to study the memory datasheets that KachiWachi kindly supplied I believe that you are 100% correct and memtest86 has now confirmed a speed difference. Sorry about the confusion I was originally using memtest not memtest86.

There is no easy way round this problem other than getting two matched pairs or one larger 512mb module. I have decided to contact the memory supplier and see if they can sort me out a pair of 60ns.

What can I say guys other than thank you both very much for your time, effort and patience. I will of coarse let you know how things go when I get a replacement module.

Kind regards...Mark
cp
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Location: Germany

does the memory speed in memtest86+ change if you put:

a) 1st slot: Toshiba RAM; 2nd slot: ProMOS RAM
b) 1st slot: ProMOS RAM; 2nd slot: Toshiba RAM

? please report back with the results.
KachiWachi
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NP on the datasheets. :)

I'm surprised that this laptop doesn't have SPD enabled (viewable, or whatever), since it is fairly new hardware.

I tried looking for a manual, but couldn't find one. :(
marky
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CP: Here are some test results

ProMoss running single module speed =221mb's
Toshiba " " " " =220mb's

Toshiba + ProMoss =199mb's
ProMoss+ Toshiba =199mb's

As predicted the ProMoss is slightly faster when running singularly.
The main issue is the 10% loss in performance when the two modules are running in either combination.

KachiWachi : Looked in the notebook manual and nothing mentioned about SPD support in the bios section. Very basic functions only.

Thanks Guys...
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